DAVID KIRBY: FEVER, VACCINES AND "MITOCHONDRIAL AUTISM"

By David Kirby

When the US Government conceded that vaccines had contributed to the development of autism in nine-year-old Hannah Poling, there was much speculation about what could trigger autistic regression in children with low cellular energy from mitochondrial dysfunction.

Many experts who oppose the idea that vaccines could be linked to autism – including those at the CDC - first suggested that a single-point mutation in Hannah’s mitochondrial DNA, inherited from her mother, was the actual underlying cause of her neurological problems.

The vaccines, they said, only made a bad situation worse. Many went so far as to insist that Hannah’s precarious genetic situation would have deteriorated into “features of autism” anyway - with or without the vaccines.

But that explanation fell apart: Hannah’s mother has the exact same mitochondrial mutation, and yet she never developed any neuro-psychological disorders. Moreover, Hannah does not have “classic” mitochondrial disease – a rare, inherited, and usually very serious disorder.

Instead, Hannah had a moderate dysfunction of her mitochondria, one that was so mild and asymptomatic that it went undetected – and apparently undisturbed – until July 19, 2000, when she received nine vaccinations at once.

The rest is medical history.

The government stated in its second concession statement in February, (in which her epilepsy was also determined to be vaccine-related), that the “cause” of Hannah’s “autistic encephalopathy” was:

“Underlying mitochondrial dysfunction, exacerbated by vaccine-induced
fever and immune stimulation that exceeded metabolic reserves.”

Many people jumped on the “vaccine induced fever” part of that sentence, and they are still running with it. Some have inferred that it is a well known fact that children with disorders of their mitochondria can readily regress into autistic encephalopathy – if they encounter any number of infant febrile infections.

This idea was supported by one of the experts on mitochondrial dysfunction and autism that I interviewed, who has studied 30 children with regressive ASD at the same clinic. He discovered that all 30 patients have the same markers for mild mitochondrial dysfunction: in this case, slightly abnormal levels or ratios of the same amino acids and liver enzymes.

One of the 30 children was Hannah Poling.

This doctor told me that, of the 30 regressive autism cases, only two -- Hannah and one other child – or 6 percent of the total, had received any vaccines within 7 days of the first sign of encephalopathy. The rest, he said, regressed because of fevers unrelated to immunization – a contention that is sure to be challenged when these data are made public..

The researcher said that children with mitochondrial dysfunction have a particularly pronounced window of vulnerability during the time when language skills are usually developing – between one and two years of age. They are, in essence, little walking, ticking time bombs: Anything that stressed their relatively fragile systems, including fever or vaccines, could push them over the edge and into ASD.

For this reason, doctors such as Paul Offit of Philadelphia say that children with mitochondrial problems should be quickly vaccinated against any disease that could cause a fever and overtax their systems.

Some estimates of the percentage of ASD children who also have mitochondrial dysfunction put the number at about 20% - though this very preliminary figure needs to be thoroughly studied. 

But if 20% of ASD kids have a mito disorder, and six percent of those kids regressed due to vaccines, then just 1% of all autism could be attributed to vaccine induced “mitochondrial regression.”

If 1% of all autism cases were actually vaccine-induced mitochondrial regression, this would suggest that another 19% of ASD cases may be mitochondrial regression induced by fever alone.

Estimates of US autism cases vary wildly, but, for argument’s sake let’s say it’s a million people (many will argue that it’s far lower than that). That would mean some 190,000 Americans with mito issues who, after normal births and development, suddenly stopped talking and regressed into autism following some kind of childhood fever.

That may be the case, but then a number of questions are left wanting for an answer.

To begin with, I have confirmed that Hannah – who was sick several times in her first year or so of life, to the extent that her parents delayed some of her vaccines – suffered a number of high fevers several times before July 19, 2000 (a day when her doctor pronounced her a picture of neurological health, by the way).

Hannah was precocious, and began forming words at nine months of age, and quickly developed a vocabulary after that, despite the fact that she had a number of subsequent fevers, including one at 13 months of age.

So my first question is: If non-vaccine related fevers could have triggered her regression, why didn’t they? Why did Hannah continue to develop language following several fevers, right up until her vaccination date in July, 2000?

The idea that millions of children each year suddenly develop autism following some routine fever, and that this has been going on for hundreds or thousands of years, also raises many interesting questions.

If that is the case, then why is there little mention in the literature – medical or otherwise – of normally developing children who developed a fever and, soon after that, stopped talking and developed features of autism?

Doesn’t it seem likely that such a disorder would have been given a name during all those years, perhaps even a folksy one, such as, say, “Mute Fever” (much like some Africans used to call AIDS “Slims Disease”)?

And speaking of Africa and other developing nations, wouldn’t this tragic phenomenon be a common, everyday part of life throughout the world? And wouldn’t the documented rate of regressive autism be far higher in countries where childhood illnesses are much more endemic than in places like the United States? (Perhaps they are, but there is no evidence of this).

Moreover, shouldn’t we have seen a steady decline in reported ASD cases over the years in America, as increased vaccination, improved sanitation and wider access to medical care reduced the occurrence of at least some fever inducing infections?

I have also learned that Hannah has suffered from extensive bouts of fever ever since her autism diagnosis. Like with many ASD kids, her symptoms actually improve remarkably during these episodes, and when they happen, she seems to temporarily “come of her cloud.”

This temporary improvement was documented in the December, 2007 issue of Pediatrics in a study titled, “Fever May Briefly Alleviate Autism Symptoms.” The authors reported that, out of 30 ASD children observed before and after a 100.4 degree fever, more than 80% showed some improvement in behavior and other signs, and 30% showed “significant improvement.” Changes included longer concentration span, increased amount of talking and improved eye contact.

So my next question is: Hannah did not regress from fevers prior to 19 months of age and, after that point, fevers made her ASD symptoms actually improve – But wouldn’t her ASD symptoms be expected to deteriorate further, rather than improve temporarily?

Still other questions arise from the government’s move, which conceded that Hannah’s autism was, "caused by vaccine induced fever and immune stimulation that exceeded metabolic reserves."
 
There are at least two ways of interpreting this statement:
 
1) Hannah’s vaccines induced a fever, which IN TURN caused immune stimulation that exceeded metabolic reserves.
 
OR
 
2) Hannah’s vaccines induced a fever, AND ALSO caused immune stimulation that exceeded metabolic reserves.

It's an important distinction.

In Hannah’s case, it is not at all clear that vaccine-induced fever, alone, would have caused an immune stimulation that “exceeded metabolic reserves.”

Isn’t it reasonable to ask if the immune stimulation that exceeded reserves was induced directly by the nine vaccine antigens, three live viruses, 50 micrograms of ethylmercury and many times more of aluminum (which is added to vaccines precisely in order to stimulate the immune system) given to her simultaneously?

In other words, were two separate biological events happening at the same time: Vaccine-induced fever AND vaccine-induced immune stimulation?

I know of several regressive ASD cases with documented diagnoses of mito dysfunction, but no fevers present during the period around the onset of encephalopathy. What happened in these cases? Is it possible that “vaccine-induced immune stimulation” alone could have triggered their regression, even without fever?

That will be the theory that is tested in the Krakow case, which was initially chosen to replace Hannah Poling as the first test case of the thimerosal causation theory. It turns out the Krakow boy tested positive for many of the same mitochondrial markers as Hannah, and he was promptly withdrawn as a thimerosal test case.

In this boy, the signs of autistic regression began after receiving a thimerosal containing vaccine, though no sign of fever was noted at the time. A month later, the child received a second mercury-containing shot and, once again, showed further (and more serious) signs of regressive encephalopathy – again without the involvement of any fever.

But do these mito children who regressed after vaccines, but not fever, really comprise just 1% of all autism cases in the country? The answer is we don’t know.

But even CDC Director Dr. Julie Gerberding has hinted that fever alone may not always be enough to trigger “ mitochondrial regression. On March 29, she told CNN’s Dr. Sanjay Gupta that, “If a child was immunized, got a fever, had other complications from the vaccines, and was pre-disposed with the mitochondrial disorder, it can certainly set off some damage (including) symptoms that have characteristics of autism.”

Dr. Gerberding  needs to tell us exactly what kind of “other complications from the vaccines” befell Hannah just before she regressed..

Meanwhile, we need to find out how many more Hannah Polings are still out there, waiting to be counted.

David Kirby is a journalist, the author of Evidence of Harm and a Huffington Post blogger. Be sure to read his HuffPo pieces and their incredible comment trails HERE.

Comments

[A]

Jim Witte wrote "With respect to fevers and perhaps other infections causing improvement, this may create a "diversion" of the immune system, and suspend it's attack on or interference with the brain. I believe I read that fevers and infections also create improvement in some autoimmune disorders temporarily."

Yes, I have read about this WRT to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome here http://www.davidsbell.com/Faces_of_CFS.pdf
read the part about poison ivy making the CFS fatigue go away temporarily.

I have CFS and Aspergers. I have mitochondrial dysfunction as shown on this blood test. http://www.ijcem.com/files/IJCEM812001.pdf
see page 11 for graph
CFS and autism seem to be very strongly connected.

[Eunice Monyei-Okenwa]

My 9year old son was perfectly normal until july 26th after bumping his head playing at the park.I have done every blood work known to doctors,everything came negetive my son is functioning at the level of a 3year old.Recently his brain mri came back with abnormal white matters nobody seem to understand what is going on with him.this is been going on for almost7months.

[Lawrence]

Mr. Kirby,

Thank you for following this story. You may have opened up a new Pandora's Box here.

Where the issue of fever in autism is concerned, the 600-pound gorilla in the room may be the virus HHV-6, a virus that seems to have emerged as an epidemic at the same time that the autism statistics started to explode.

Here's a snapshot of HHV-6 from the HHV-6 Foundation's site: "HHV-6, a beta herpesvirus in the same family as cytomegalovirus, was discovered in 1986 in AIDS patients with cancer and lymphoproliferative disorders. It infects close to 100% of children by the age of two, causing mild flu-like symptoms in some, but in some cases proceeds to serious rash, high fever, encephalitis and seizures. A surprisingly high percentage of pediatric emergency room visits are due to primary HHV-6 infections. In some areas as many as 13% of infants with acute HHV-6 infections develop seizures and other manifestations of encephalitis. The virus can persist in the CNS. In most cases, the virus goes into latency; however, in patients with impaired immune function, the virus persists in its active state at low levels for years."

When the HHV-6 discoverer, Robert Gallo, suggested that HHV-6 was the critical co-factor in AIDS, the idea was quickly dismissed in the late 80s because the virus seemed to be ubiquitous. But research since then has shown that activated HHV-6A is a significant issue in the progression of AIDS. It has also been linked to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, AIDS, MS, cancer, cardiac problems and, if you read Kent Heckenlively's HHV-6 posts on this site, it may also be a key to autism.

Given that HHV-6 has been linked to CFS which is partly a condition of "low cellular energy from mitochondrial dysfunction," one has to ask if Hannah had a HHV-6 infection that was exacerbated by the vaccine. The silent epidemic of activated HHV-6A may be the key to a number of neurological problems in children for the last two decades.

I hope you will look into the link between HHV-6 and autism. A conference on HHV-6 will begin in Baltimore on June 19. It is hosted by Dr. Robert Gallo, the so-called discover of HIV.

You have raised international awareness about vaccines and autism. It would be great if you could do the same for HHV-6 and autism.

It may turn out that physicians need to control HHV-6 if and when it is exacerbated or activated by vaccines. They may need to treat it more aggressively even if vaccines are not involved.

[LJ]

doodle, I must admit my initial comment was only aimed at correcting the statement from Mr. Kirby that I quoted, without even a glance to the "study" you're referring to. However, I absolutely agree with you that if there are no methods available, the data is impossible to accurately interpret!

Mr. Kirby, I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I don't believe that in the time you say you spent in the places you listed you never encountered a single autistic child. You may not have been aware of it and you may not have encountered anyone that was severely autistic. That doesn't mean they aren't there.

Different cultures and societies have different ways of handling mental illnesses and developmental disorders. It wasn't so long ago that we in the US were institutionalizing and even lobotomizing a large number of people that we would now try to integrate into our society. Remember that when you imply that because you don't see them they're not there.

[Fever means something]

My 9 year old son with ASD has NOT had a fever since "developing" autism at 15 months. Some minor fevers before ASD but NONE after. What does that mean?! As a matter of fact, he runs a very low body temperature all the time.

[David Kirby]

“I think that ***if ****the child mortality rate is significantly higher (e.g. in third world countries or several decades ago), then the chances of a child surviving to be diagnosed with an ASD is less likely. This results in both lower percentages and absolute numbers.”

LJ:

I wonder how much time you have spent in poor countries? I lived in Southern Africa, Mexico and Central American for a number of years, mostly as a reporter (during which time, mostly the 80s, I NEVER heard about a single case of autism - I reported on malaria, cholera, TB, respiratory infections, asthma (in Mexico City), dengue, malnutrition, HIV, and other Third World health problems, I spent a lot of time with doctors at hospitals and health centers in big cities and small villages, and I never came across a SINGLE case of autism).

In areas with high child mortality rates, most people simply have more children. The populations of developing countries, on balance, have been growing faster that Europe and N America for many decades.

[doodle]

LJ,

Sure, your point is taken. No problems with that.

But I think you are using your point to examine the information (not even an abstract) at face value and trying to say how it could be possible that 28 out of 30 kids with mito dysfunction regressed just because they became ill and got a fever. Maybe you are just being hypothetical, but my point is "no methods section - no dismissing vaccine connections". Sure it it possible that kids could catch virus, get a fever, and then regress, but it doesn't pass the common sense test because that would have been documented and have happened from every childhood illness. It can be examined more closely though, and probably will.

[LJ]

Kelli, so now you see my point about historical speculation? And doodle, I never brought up anything about adverse reactions to vaccines or how doctors handle them. That's not the point I was trying to make. The point is that an immune response is complex and that a fever is never just a fever. A fever is a result of immune stimulation, not a cause of said stimulation.

[Twyla]

LJ -
I grew up at a time when all the kids I knew -- including myself and my brothers, neighbors, classmates, etc. -- came down with measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, german measles, flu, and whooping cough. We got fevers from these illnesses as well as from strep throat and other common viruses and infections. And until just a few years ago most kids came down with chicken pox. I don't know anyone who became autistic following fever from a naturally occurring illness. And the explanation for no autism is not death, because I don't know anyone who died of these illnesses either.

These illnesses (and the resulting fevers) have drastically decreased because of vaccines, while the autism rate has drastically increased.

I read many many credible accounts of children becoming autistic after vaccines, but none about children becoming autistic after illnesses. Maybe this can happen in some rare situations, but it's quite hard to believe that naturally occurring illnesses with fever contribute significantly to the rate of autism.

It's speculative, nonsensical, and without any factual foundation to say, "Well, if some kids become autistic from the vaccines, probably even more kids would have become autistic from the illnesses."

As far as 7 days, there's no magic dividing line. For example, regarding adverse vaccine reactions in animals, Dr. Jean Dodd said, "The onset of adverse reactions to conventional vaccinations... can be an immediate hypersensitivity or anaphylactic reaction, or can occur acutely (24-48 hours afterwards), or later on (10-45 days) in a delayed type immune response often caused by immunecomplex formation."

[Jim Witte]

Thinking out loud here:

Is there any DAN out there trying (or researchers do studies on say.. autistic monkeys) the "Enbrel in the brain" treatment that is being studied for Alzheimer's and produced improvements *within minutes*? The theory behind it is that the Enbrel (or presumably any of the TNF-alpha monoclonal antibodies) temporarily shuts off brain inflammation, thus producing improvements. AgeOfAutism has a story on the trial and a link to an article about it.

The Alzheimer's trial has been going on for 3 years, although repeated treatments with the medicine are needed to continually suppress the (supposed) brain inflammation. It may be possible in an ASD child to suppress it once, which may create a "window" of sorts during which complete suppression of the inflammation could be achieved through biomed, although I would think such complete suppression would require removal of metals, as they seem to be drivers of immune response (aluminum certainly is).

With respect to fevers and perhaps other infections causing improvement, this may create a "diversion" of the immune system, and suspend it's attack on or interference with the brain. I believe I read that fevers and infections also create improvement in some autoimmune disorders temporarily.

Vaccinal aluminum creates it's adjuvant effect by increasing uric acid concentration, and increased uric acid concentration, triggering increased immune dendritic cell activity and uptake of the vaccine's pathogen. The DC activation probably may cause imbalances in the brain's immune system directly (Blaylock's hypothesis of systemic immune activation affecting the neural immune system and microglia), and increased uric acid may trigger mitochondrial dysfunction and other oxidative stress conditions (it does in rats at least - I haven't finished reading through the papers on this yet). Heavy metals may be able to do this on a continual basis.

In the study that determined that the immune adjuvant effect was due to uric acid immune-stimulating effect of aluminum was abated by treatment with uricase, which degrades uric acid and is used in the treatment of hyper-uricemia which leads to gout. Uric acid is naturally an antioxidant, as well as a natural immune system "danger signal", so should not be totally degraded, but ASD *may* be a condition where a hyper-uricemia is documented. (File this under "something someone who knows more than me should do more research on")

Another interesting thing for someone to study would be look at uric acid concentrations in the CSF (as close to the brain as you can get), or perhaps you could just look at blood levels, before, during, and after fever/infection in ASD kids, and ESPECIALLY at whether uric acid concentration does anything strange in kids who get better when they have a fever and then get a lot worse. This may imply some process that is like a swinging pendulum - it swings almost to some condition that abates ASD, and then swings back in the other direction, and creates a "re-regression" of ASD symptoms that are temporarily worse than at the start. If this process could be identified and interrupted (perhaps with uricase, perhaps by some other means or a biomed intervention that would naturally stop uric acid production - if indeed uric acid is at the root of the "re-regression").

IF uric acid (or something else) is involved, it would also be interesting to look at it's interaction with calcium binding proteins, and the vitamin K cycle (required to activate calcium binding proteins). Calcium dysregulation in the brain is hypothesized to possibly create or exacerbate some if not most autistic symptoms.

Questions that might shed light on this for parents of kids who "re-regress" after infection or fever:

1) When re-regression does occur, does bruising or other bleeding problems get worse or occur? Several of the blood-clotting factors are Vitamin-K-dependent (VKD) proteins.

2) Does anyone who has a child like this also use the Vitamin K protocol? Checking the biomarkers related to that protocol at the time when "re-regression" occurrs might be useful (these are ionized and non-ionized calcium, active and inactive forms of vitamin D, several tests related to the body's acid balance, and a few others I forget off the top of my head).

Again, these are just ideas, born of a brain that has had too little sleep probably, and may not make any real scientific sense at all :)

[Kat]

Thanks, again! Another thought provoking article:)

[Kelli Ann Davis]

“I think that ***if ****the child mortality rate is significantly higher (e.g. in third world countries or several decades ago), then the chances of a child surviving to be diagnosed with an ASD is less likely. This results in both lower percentages and absolute numbers.”

LJ:

Are you serious??

So in other words, we never got to see kids regress into autism back in the *prehistoric days* of Joanie, Richie and the Fonz because they were dropping like flies at the rate of 1 in 150 due to infant mortality issues????

Ahhhh….and you think *I* have a problem with historic speculation and semantics??

[Jenny]

Thank you!!

I know I have talked about this on the EOH list --and I get a bit touchy over the "fever issue".
I hope he discussion catches on.

I think the focus on "fever" is off. We need to look at what causes fever. Our body raises it's temp as an immune response. Talking about "fevers" flicking the switch for autism is ignoring the cause of the fever. A fever is a symptom, like you said, not something in and of itself --and people are forgetting that. The idea of the fever is incidental.

I wish this discussion would stop using the word --to say, "immune reaction/response" preceded the autism. In some kids this might be an avg bug they are fighting, but their mitochondrial situation is fragile enough that it flips the switch. OR in some kids, perhaps it takes the vaccines. In kids in the 90's perhaps the mix of the vaccines with the mercury.... etc. etc.

If these kids are susceptible to ANYTHING exciting their immune system. Paul Offit is doing them a huge disservice (nothing new) by suggesting 110% compliance to the schedule in these kids. Vaccines excite the immune system --obviously. Let's stop saying fever and focus on immune response.
I'll repeat that 100 times or more.

My fully vaccinated autistic son, who really got the shaft with OPV DTwP and full compliments of mercury was sick.. so sick often. Shortly after his 6 mo shots I took his temp after giving him fever reducers (before I knew better) it was 105.8 (106 is indicative of poisoning). Yet, he was NOT autistic until after his 15 mo MMR shot. It was a dramatic shift in his behavior.

My non vax'd son had a few sniffles but not many these first 3 years of his life. But he actually had strep throat last year. It hit him hard, high fever. He was sick about three days. I even caved in and gave him his first and only antibiotic of his life (we were in the middle of moving half way cross the country). No autism for him.

I realize my observations between my sons are inconclusive, but it got me thinking about what you discuss. Why one and not the other. Maybe my youngest is not genetically susceptible and it wouldn't have mattered. But based on family history and some personal observations, I feel as if he would be. And what if he was? Why didn't his immune response push him into autism? Could it be his virgin immune system? Lack of heavy metals damaging his cells?

The pieces are falling together. It's interesting that only two had shots within 7 days... but perhaps the shots even a month or two in advance push them close to tipping, and then a subsequent illness finished them off. We are sill missing some small pieces. But its nice to see it coming together.

I still do not doubt for one minute that MOST autism is from vaccines, not just 1%. Either those kids in the 90's who suffered from vaccines and mercury, to those kids getting less mercury now, but still suffering from the effects of vaccines on their immune system, MMR on thier Mitochondria.

I could go on for hours... I will stop :)

[MinorityView]

LJ
You would have to go back a long way in the U.S. to find enough children dying of childhood illnesses to make your theory about fever work. By 1940 mortality from the common illnesses of childhood had dropped tremendously (before vaccines were widely available for most of these illnesses) and few children died from measles or chickenpox or mumps or even diphtheria any longer. But children continued to get sick and have fevers. And these fevers did not seem to provoke regressive autism. How do I know all this? I was there. I had fevers. Every child I knew got sick and had fevers. None of them regressed. For info on mortality from infectious illness, read: The Questionable Contribution of Medical Measures to the Decline of Mortality in the United States in the Twentieth Century by John B. McKinlay and Sonja M. McKinlay (1977).

[doodle]

Well LJ, what if the parents of the 30 kids.. oops, I mean data points.. get in touch and relate their stories. This researcher has determined that vaccines did not contribute to regression in 28 of them, but how many of those parents agree? How many parents here at Age of Autism agree with their doctor's ideas about vaccine-induced regression in their kids? You'll probably find that most parents are just told that there is no relationship, based on some preconceived, arbitrary cut-off time for vaccine reaction. Who is to say that this researcher was not as dismissive of parents decribing a vaccine reaction as other doctors. Maybe Hannah and the other child were too obvious to miss, but the rest just were not up to his "standard" of vaccine-damaged data points.

Essentially, until we see the paper with a methods section that can be verified and double-checked so we can figure out the underlying assumptions, as with the monkey-autism work, it is better to not dismiss any vaccine connections. I'm sure Dr. Healy would agree.

[doodle]

Well LJ, what if the parents of the 30 kids.. oops, I mean data points.. get in touch and relate their stories. This researcher has determined that vaccines did not contribute to regression in 28 of them, but how many of those parents agree? How many parents here at Age of Autism agree with their doctor's ideas about vaccine-induced regression in their kids? You'll probably find that most parents are just told that there is no relationship, based on some preconceived, arbitrary cut-off time for vaccine reaction. Who is to say that this researcher was not as dismissive of parents decribing a vaccine reaction as other doctors. Maybe Hannah and the other child were too obvious to miss, but the rest just were not up to his "standard" of vaccine-damaged data points.

Essentially, until we see the paper with a methods section that can be verified and double-checked so we can figure out the underlying assumptions, as with the monkey-autism work, it is better to not dismiss any vaccine connections. I'm sure Dr. Healy would agree.

[LJ]

Kelli, I think you're missing my point. *Fever alone* does not exist. There is no such thing as just a fever. Therefore, it's not so absurd that a situation resulting in a fever can have severe consequences.

The "historical aspect" is just speculation and semantics. I think that if the child mortality rate is significantly higher (e.g. in third world countries or several decades ago), then the chances of a child surviving to be diagnosed with an ASD is less likely. This results in both lower percentages and absolute numbers.

[Seizures mom]

"My 13 year old Mia has a fever today. And she is talking far more than usual. When she had seizures (which the idiot neuros attributed to "different wiring") she always had an alert, verbal, close to typical kid day just before the seizures took over her small body."

Kim, right before my son is primed for a seizure, he is at his close to neurotypical best. The day he has a very good day, a seizure typically follows OR he looks pre-seizurish. I dread those days and watch him like a hawk, upping all the seizure supporting supplements. I didn't know there was another child that behaved the same way as my son.

[Gayle]

My 6 year old PPD-NOS diagnosed daughter ran a fever of 104.6 at school a while back, and I was called to come and pick her up. I arrived with isopropyl alcohol, cotton and Motrin on hand, and I was very frightened when the nurse wheeled my child out to me in a wheelchair (she was having trouble walking due to the fever.) As I raced her over to her pediatrician, I talked to her to try to keep her calm. The experience was surreal in that she was talking very calmly to me and answered all of my questions on topic, and with intelligence. I was amazed that with that high of a fever she could be coherent at all. I believe that there has to be a reason for this, and that perhaps there is something to the theory of fever causing the heavy metals in the brain to expand and make neuronal connections complete. Something must be happening to cause this phenomenon.

[Kelli Ann Davis]

“This is a very complex issue, and I think it's unfair to try to simplify it to "she had a fever before but this didn't happen".

LJ,

You’re missing the point.

The comment isn’t an attempt to “simplify” a complex issue – it’s to highlight the absurdity that *fever alone* could induce autism!!!

That's why DK brought up the *historical* aspect both in terms of the general population and Hannah specifically.

Kelli

PS....Kim, I too believe your Mia is *intact* and trapped inside. If anyone can get her out -- it'll be you.

Godspeed.