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DAVID GORSKI, M.D.: THE WORLDWIDE WANKER OF "WOO"

Gorskiorac_1By J.B. Handley

What if you wrote a blog under a pseudonym-- “ORAC” --an acronym for an online programming language and the name of a wayward computer in an old BBC sci-fi series?

What if you also blogged as “SoCalGal” and pretended to be a woman?

What if you proudly declared to the world, “My recreation of choice most evenings these days is to blog. It truly is my hobby”?

Then you would be David Gorski M.D, the Worldwide Wanker of Woo (he uses the term “woo” to refer to what he believes is pseudoscience), an annoying blogger who also happens to be a surgeon.

Mr. Gorski has become a bit of a thorn in the side of our community, if only because his blog is widely read and quoted by others. Consider a recent post from Mr. Gorski regarding the recent AutismOne conference:

“If you want to know the difference between science and pseudoscience, the AutismOne conference is a great example. In science, evidence and experimentation rule. Scientists are always looking for ways to poke holes in the prevailing hypotheses. True, we scientists don't always live up to that ideal, and some of us may be too comfortable, but nonetheless the real way to glory in science is to shoot down an accepted hypothesis and replace it with one of your own--all through evidence of course. No one ever won a Nobel Prize for incrementally supporting the existing paradigm. In pseudoscience, on the other hand, we see people safely wrapped in a cocoon of their own groupthink, blissfully oblivious to contradicting evidence and not caring that not only are the scientific consensus and multiple large, well-designed epidemiological studies against them but that no one on "their" side has been able to produce any scientifically compelling evidence to support the vaccine hypothesis. Instead we get the Geiers and their incompetent epidemiology or Dr. Laura Hewitson and her poorly designed monkey studies, along with glaring conflicts of interest.”

Mr. Gorski’s blog, Respectful Insolence, is anything but. His putdowns and demeaning language aimed at our community (and many of his colleagues) are rampant. And, so, in the spirit of Mr. Gorski’s novel use of the word “respectful”, I insolently offer up:

A DOZEN REASONS TO RESPECTFULLY HATE DAVID GORSKI, M.D.:

1. He lives in a very cheap glass house

Mr. Gorski writes proudly, “As far as I've yet been able to ascertain, I'm the only academic surgeon with R01 funding in the world with an active -- and, even more shockingly, even a somewhat popular -- blog.”

The obvious question that he never asks is, “Why don’t any of my peers spend loads of their time publicly bashing other scientists?” The answer to that question would be, “Because most research scientists are not idiots who place ego gratification through reader adulation above professional conduct.”

2. He is a nobody in the science world

I could care less about Mr. Gorski or his career. I’m sure he has worked hard to get where he is. But, relatively speaking, Mr. Gorski is a nobody. He’s an “Assistant Professor.”

When Bill Walton criticizes NBA players, he annoys some, but the man is highly accomplished in his field, so people listen and respect his point of view. Mr. Gorski’s only claim to fame is that he blogs frequently enough to be high in the search rankings.

Mr. Gorski is very proud of himself. He writes: “I got into the University of Michigan Medical School, which got around 3,000 applications every year for around 180 positions.”

Wow!!

3. He’s a complete wanker

Some people are just such tool jobs they should probably not do a lot of public blogging. Don’t take my word for it, just consider this gem from Mr. Gorski:

“[In College] I was then, as I am now, pretty geeky and had only a relatively small circle of friends. I rarely ‘partied.’”

This is the equivalent of John Candy mentioning in Stripes, “Some of you may not have noticed I have a bit of a weight problem.”

Geeky? Really? With that stunning visage looking like the love child of Lurch and Sam the Eagle, I figured you ruled the school.

4. He is a crazy daredevil

This one really bowled me over:

“So insane was I that one year I took 17 credits in the fall semester, all but 3 of which were hard-core science classes, including graduate level biochemistry, and then did the same thing again the next semester.”

No! NO!!  You are a MADMAN!!

5. He often speaks in the third person

Why do people speak in the third person? Mr. Gorski not only does it, but he speaks in third person pseudonym:

“You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Orac”

Oh, no, run!! Here comes Orac!!

6. He dismisses any scientists who consider the vaccine-autism connection

This is a classic knee-jerk of the mainstream health establishment when combating the growing evidence of a vaccine-autism connection: paint any scientist who entertains the notion of a connection between vaccines and autism as a crank. Consider his “respectful” comment regarding Dr. Hewitson, a member of the recent vaccine-monkey study discussed at IMFAR:

“Unfortunately, Dr. Hewitson wouldn't be the first researcher whose personal brush with autism led her down the path of questionable science; I hope she doesn't descent too far into antivaccination-related research to get out before doing permanent damage to her career.”

It’s interesting to contrast Mr. Gorski’s comments with those of Dr. Bernadine Healy, a graduate of Harvard University, Harvard Medical School, former CEO of the Red Cross, and former President of the National Institutes of Health:

"There is a completely expressed concern that they [mainstream scientists] don't want to pursue a hypothesis because that hypothesis could be damaging to the public health community at large by scaring people. First of all, I think the public’s smarter than that. The public values vaccines. But more importantly, I don’t think you should ever turn your back on any scientific hypothesis because you’re afraid of what it might show."

It’s worth pointing out that Dr. Healy does not blog under a pseudonym nor has she actively called out any specific researchers to accuse them of being “cranks.”

7. He knows Hannah Poling better than her Dad (a doctor) does

When the Hannah Poling case hit the news, Mr. Gorski was quick to support many of the talking points the other side used to try to minimize the impact of the court’s decision. It’s interesting to compare Mr. Gorski’s comments with those of Jon Poling, Hannah’s father- a practicing neurologist.

Mr. Gorski writes:

“Mitochondrial disorders of the sort suffered by Hannah are genetic in nature and rare, an estimated 5.7 individuals per 100,000 worldwide…the subset of these disorders that cause autism-like symptoms is even more rare.”

But, Dr. Poling, a neurologist, says:

“No one knows if Hannah’s mitochondrial dysfunction existed before receiving vaccines.”

Mr. Gorski writes:

“…what was really diagnosed was a regressive encephalopathy that had some features of ASD…The bottom line is that it is fever from any source, be it a vaccine reaction or, more commonly, an infection that can exacerbate mitochondrial disorders and provoke encephalopathy. Moreover, because of the confounding factor of multiple ear infections, it's not 100% clear that her vaccinations even caused her regression”

But, Dr. Poling says:

“Our daughter, Hannah, developed normally until receiving nine vaccines at once. She immediately developed a fever and encephalopathy, deteriorating into what was diagnosed, based on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or D.S.M. IV, as autism.”

Mr. Gorski writes:

“…mutations in the same gene that Hannah had a mutation in are incredibly rare…it is very likely that the reason the Poling case was dropped as a test case from the Autism Omnibus is because it is so unusual and atypical.”

But, Dr. Poling says:

“How many Hannah Polings are out there?  The short answer is that nobody knows.  However, there is emerging data to suggest that she is not alone. Dr. Shoffner will be presenting his experience with 37 patients with combined autism and mitochondrial dysfunction at the AAN meeting in Chicago this April. 65% of his referrals are positive for mitochondrial dysfunction.  Of course, his yield is subject to referral bias as a mito expert, so the prevalence of mitochondrial dysfunction in Autism is surely less than 65%. The best estimate to date of the prevalence of mitochondrial dysfunction in autistic patients comes from Oliviera et al. in a population of 120, 5 of 69 (or 7.2%) showed mitochondrial dysfunction.  If this is generalized to the US estimate of 1 million patients with ASDs, then the number of kids like Hannah could be 72,000!  Isn’t this worth further study?”

Mr. Gorski Says:

“It is also known that children with mitochondrial disorders are prone to develop an encephalopathy in response to stress or fever that can cause them to regress. The source of this stress is often an infection, such as a cold or normal childhood illness, that results in a fever. The reason is that the mitochondria are the "batteries" or energy sources of the cell, and mitochondrial diseases can lead a child to be "energy challenged," so to speak.

But, government attorneys and scientists conceded in the Hannah Poling case that the cause of her encephalopathy was:
“…underlying mitochondrial dysfunction, exacerbated by vaccine-induced fever and immune stimulation that exceeded metabolic reserves.”

8. He thinks our kids spontaneously recover

“Spontaneous Recovery” has been a semantic trick used by the mainstream to explain why some of our kids recover, despite the fact that it means absolutely nothing. “Spontaneous” does not describe what happened, biologically, to allow a child to go from severely impaired to normal. It shows an extreme lack of medical curiosity.

Mr. Gorski subscribes to the “Spontaneous Recovery” theory to explain our recovered kids. I pressed him on this issue in private emails, asking him how, as a physician, he can ignore the stories of formerly diagnosed children now living normally? His response was that it is, “very easy to be fooled, particularly in the cases of mild ASD.”  Mr. Gorski’s science that supports the position of spontaneous recovery is a sole study titled Diagnostic stability in very young children with autism spectrum disorders. The study, featuring all of 77 children, looks at diagnosis of all ASD labels over time. Take a read for yourself.

Mr. Gorski’s response to what he contends is “pseudoscience” is…pseudoscience.

9. Solely citing epidemiology, he says the vaccine-autism debate is over

Mr. Gorski often writes of the “…science failing to find a link between vaccines and autism.”

Mr. Gorski uses many of the tricks of the mainstream in trying to make it seem like the vaccine-autism debate is over. In order to do this successfully, you have to ignore some ugly truths:

- All studies conducted have been done by conflicted parties
- Most studies have only considered thimerosal levels in vaccines, and then only compared kids who received more thimerosal versus those who received less
- No studies have ever considered children who received the entire vaccine load versus those who received none

Consider a comment from British Epidemiologist Geoffrey Rose, which would support the folly of solely analyzing vaccinated children:

“Imagine, Rose suggested, if everyone smoked a pack of cigarettes every day. Any study trying to link cigarette smoking to lung cancer ‘would lead us to conclude that lung cancer was a genetic disease…since if everyone is exposed to the necessary agent, then the distribution of cases is wholly determined by individual susceptibility.’”

Or, this commentary on epidemiology from the New England Journal of Medicine:

“A common feature of epidemiological data is that they are almost certain to be biased, of doubtful quality, or incomplete…Problems do not disappear even if one has flawless data, since the statistical associations in almost any nontrivial set of observations are subject to many interpretations. This ambiguity exists because of the difficulty of sorting out causes, effects, concomitant variables, and random fluctuations when the causes are multiple or diffuse….Even when the data are generally accepted as accurate, there is much room for individual judgment, and the considered conclusions of the investigators in these matters determine what they will label cause.”

So despite holding other scientist to the highest standards, Mr. Gorski will gorge on narrowly-constructed, ratshit epidemiology funded by the CDC to close the case on vaccines and autism?

10. He thinks we should be more careful when we vaccinate monkeys

Mr. Gorski was quick out of the blocks to criticize the emerging results from a study that vaccinated monkeys on the US vaccine schedule and compared them to unvaccinated monkeys. In fact, he seems to be developing an entirely new theory about why the vaccinated monkeys appear to be so sick. He writes:

“How long is the life expectancy and time to maturity of these monkeys? In other words, were the investigators scaling down the time between injections proportionally to the difference in time to maturity between humans and these monkeys? That could end up being a lot of shots in a short period of time. So I looked it up. Rhesus Macaque monkeys live around 25 years and males reach sexual maturity by around four years of age, approximately 1/4 of the time it takes humans males to reach sexual maturity. That means, if I interpret correctly the methodology claiming to "adjust for age" that these monkeys could have received a lot of shots in a really short period of time.”

Did he just say that “a lot of shots in a really short period of time” could cause a problem?

Boy, that sounds familiar.

Thanks for looking out for the monkeys, Dr. Gorski, don’t mind the several million kids over here who got “a lot of shots in a really short period of time” and are now completely fucked up. The CDC’s epidemiologist, who now works for Glaxo Smith Kline in the vaccine division, says they there is no link based on his “well designed” study comparing kids who got a lot of mercury with those who got quite a bit. You should feel like you have this all figured out.

11. He’s not a parent

While hard to believe based on Mr. Gorski’s stunning looks, confessions of being “geeky” in college and blogging as his only hobby (what’d he do before blogs?) – Mr. Gorski has yet to procreate.

This means Mr. Gorski’s exposure to autistic children, schools bursting with special needs kids, and parents in every community lamenting developmental challenges in their kids is non-existent. I highly doubt he has any friends who went to the doctor for a “well baby” visit and returned with a child descending into autism.

12. He’s got it backwards

Mr. Gorski writes:

”The one good thing is that the point of graduate school in sciences is more to teach you how to think and how to apply the scientific method. Science changes so rapidly that the information we had to learn was not as important as learning how to teach ourselves, read the scientific literature, and apply it to our research.”

Mr. Gorski does not live up to the lofty standards he has set for himself or his colleagues, many of whom he publicly berates and humiliates. As an individual, he is a nobody, which is why he blogs under a pseudonym.

The reason Mr. Gorski drives us nuts is because he selectively applies his scientific standards to anything that supports his position—a common behavior of the mainstream health establishment. He reminds us of our pediatricians who told us we were crazy.

In Mr. Gorski’s world, highly flawed epidemiology gets a hall pass but anybody or anything that supports a connection between vaccines and autism is quackery written by cranks. Ask him to apply his high standards to the CDC’s “science” and he won’t do it.

Claude Bernard, in An Introduction to Experimental Medicine, wrote:

“It is better to know nothing, than to keep in mind fixed ideas based on theories whose confirmation we constantly seek, neglecting meanwhile everything that fails to agree with it.”

Dr Bernandine Healy has been imploring her colleagues to open their minds to the possibilities of what our community is saying. The Worldwide Wanker of Woo, David Gorski, would be well served to listen.

JB Handley is Editor at Large for Age of Autism and co-founder of Generation Rescue.

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Thanks for proving my point, chum. Toodles.

You have replied to my point that it is wrong to resort to petty personal insults with... a petty personal insult.

I will not be replying any more, so feel free to take more shots at my intelligence without threat of a response.

Best regards,
Jack

Brilliant, Jack! Chiding AoA on an article that is 2 years old. Hey, would you look at that? It's as old as your mental maturity! Well done.

And, really...it's no worse that the excrement that Gorski regularly inflicts on those he doesn't like.

So, I'm curious...you can dish it out but can't take it? Want some cheese with that whine?

To post an article that does literally nothing but attack trivial personal details of another man is incredibly childish and, worse, malicious. You should be ashamed of yourself, and if you had any sense of moral publication conduct you would take this article down immediately.

If you don't approve this comment, I would hope you at least read it and take it to heart.

Prof Colquhoun

Why pick on this article two and half years old, when there are several new ones every day? And while you are about it, have you seen the stuff they put up on Science Blogs?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/magazine/01FOB-medium-t.html?_r=1

Oh I really do love posts and comments like those on display hear. No skeptical blogger could begin to emulate the angry irrationality of it all. It all sounds a bit like putting the Tea Party in charge of medicine.

http://www.bolenreport.com/feature_articles/feature_article086.htm

Check out Tim Bolen, consumer advocate, ripping on Dr. Gorski:

"So, who and what is a "David Gorski MD?"

It is pretty clear here that we are dealing with a serious mental aberration. What kind of person sets themselves up, and actually believes, that they are an infallible Oracle, and then presents themselves in public as one?

What I found did not surprise me.

In short, David Gorski MD is a loser. He got himself a good education and set off on what he thought, at the time, was a good career path. But, like many focused people, he didn't make the effort to compare the situation he was currently in with the reality of the surrounding world.

He became a Breast Cancer Surgeon - and as we all know, that's kind of like being a major DDT Manufacturer just before the EPA wakes up.

Every day Gorski gets out of bed and heads to work where he claims, on his website, that he "is a surgical oncologist specializing in breast cancer and an Associate Professor of Surgery at the Wayne State University School of Medicine based at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute."

Sounds impressive? It isn't. There is absolutely no recognized medical specialty known as "surgical oncologist." It is a made up term. One to soften, I think, the reality that there is a whole male dominated mini-industry promoting the horror of hacking off women's beasts as a health measure.

The whole idea of breast cancer surgery is being challenged right now by studies conducted by the US government - as well it should be. The "Gold Standard" of breast cancer surgery is called the Halstead Procedure, which, in reality, draws a surgical line four inches above the naval, and a second line just below the collar bone. Everything between the lines is chopped off - down to the ribs, including all those 29 lymph nodes. "Mom" comes home from the hospital looking a lot different. Then, since all those lymph nodes are gone her arms are going to swell up to the size of her waist.

But the family needn't worry. They won't have to look at "Mom" in her new ugliness for long, for the surgery itself released all those tumorous cancer cells that her body's immune system had encapsulated, into her blood stream spreading the cancer EVERYWHERE. So "Mom" will be heading back to the hospital where the same white-coated-stethoscope-around-the-neck doctor will now recommend $400,000 of chemotherapy (and could you stop by the hospital business office while you are here, and sign over the title to your home as guarantee of your co-pay please?).

But, thank God, all this is on the way out. City Cemeteries won't be doing a boom business in "Mom we love you..." signage so much, now that the government, and hence insurance companies, have cut out those "annual mammograms" designed to scare young women into letting some ghoul stick needles into her breasts for so-called tests.

More, needle biopsies themselves are death waiting in the wings. The action of some ham-handed, poke-a-lot, drooling(?) older male "surgical oncologist" jabbing, and jabbing, and jabbing, and jabbing, and jabbing, a biopsy needle into a soft tissue breast trying to find an actual tumor is a cancer spreading procedure. Why? Once the needle finds the tumor it pierces the shell the body's immune system has built up around the cancer cells. Withdrawing the needle, while squeezing the breast makes the cancer cells squirt into the breast tissue along the needle hole. More jabbing spreads the cancer cells around, and the capillaries in the breast pick up the cells and transport them throughout the body to lodge and replicate elsewhere - Isn't that special?

Frank Weiwel, from People Against Cancer, tells me:

Dr. Ian MacDonald, internationally known cancer surgeon, now deceased, presented extensive data on breast cancer in the American Journal of Surgery (March 1966) and concluded that "the massive educational, diagnostic and therapeutic attack on mammary carcinoma of the past two decades has failed to alter rates of incidence and mortality of this most frequent malignant neoplasm in female patients. Reports on the therapy of mammary cancer in the surgical literature often lack significance through selected samples of small size and the lack of statistical validation." When the statistical errors are accounted for, he added, the corrected data "lend little if any support to the case for 'early' diagnosis."

In other words - it is common knowledge both inside and outside the cancer industry that the David Gorski MDs of the world represent the front line of deadly bullshit. And, they are on their way out.

Gorski woke up not so long ago, I think, and realized that he had the equivalent of "Exclusive manufacturing and distribution rights to DDT in the US" and that those people pounding on his door at 6:00AM were EPA Agents with a warrant to dig up his basement floor.

Gorski, I think, instead of changing his life, his career path, and finding a path towards "good," has decided to lash out at others - those that had taken the right path to start with. He turned vicious, and nasty, and because of that I think Quackbuster Central will use him to replace Stephen Barrett.

The new guy heading up the quackbuster assault is going to be, I think, "Orac the Nipple Ripper." Stay tuned...Tim Bolen - Consumer Advocate

I saw a cab driver kicking the living dog crap out of another cabbie in the middle of Lexington Ave one day. The streets were full of people and no one was stopping the fight. Well being the gallant southern ruffian that I was raised to be, I stepped in the middle to break it up and immediately got cold-cocked, stumbled backwards to catch myself and found myself standing next to a policeman who like the rest of the crowd was just watching the action.

Sometimes there is a reason why people fight, hate, kick, bite, or as the cop said to me, "Sometimes people just have it coming to them."

I have some interest in ASD's both as a parent with wonderful AS child, and as a psychotherapist. I suggest you rewrite you opening page.

Whatever your position, ad homenim/ man of straw attacks, and this page is full of it, set's your site up to appear bitter, biased, inaccurate and just out to lynch. This approach just buries objectivity and switches OFF those who might want to take part or contribute.

What about presenting facts and they might just speak for themselves.

Very disappointed by a site that could otherwise be quite good.

to J.B. (and his conspicuously similar-to-gorski entourage)

let the science speak for itself.

Your crass assessment of his personal life makes you sound *gasp* just like him! C'mon! Set an example...for the ki...nevermind...

What is your position, Mr. Handley? It must be far more prestigious than "Assistant Professor” for you to look down on it so.

Dear JB, You ask the question- Who refers to themselves in the third person? I have heard of one- His name was Richard Nixon.

Dr. Jay Gordon,

You are a hero, and parents applaude you everywhere! Thanks for all you do, especially for taking part in the rally. Keep on fighting, and know that thousands of parents are by your side. Our group carried a poster at the rally saying, "Thank you Dr. Jay Gordon". We hope you saw it. You deserve praise for standing up for what you believe in. You also a deserve a big thank you.

Julie

Great post, Dr. Gordon!

I applaud this expose on one of the internet's most virulent healthfrauds ... David Gorski ... a member of the Vaccination Propaganda team who call themselves the "Rag-tag Posse of Snake-oil Vigilantes."
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm#David-Gorski

They have ridden roughshod for years suing and smearing Vaccination Awareness Activists such as Dr. Joseph Mercola, Dr. Tedd Koren, and myself. I am happy to say I have defeated Barrett and his sidekick in Canda, Terry Polevoy all the way to the Supreme Court of California.
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/BarrettVsRosenthal.htm

I have seen Gorski's lies on Wikipedia, Usenet, the Healthfraud List and the fake "science" blogs he runs.

Bravo to all the wonderful Vaccination Awareness activists and parents who won't give up.

Love from Health Lover, Ilena Rose

JB!!! This is amazing. I stayed up until 5:00 sending an answer to Orac/Dave Gorski. Here it is. Great seeing you this weekend.

I WROTE THIS LAST NIGHT TO DAVE GORSKI AKA ORAC FOR HIS BLOG ANSWERING A "FEW" DETRACTORS. SOME OF IT WON'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE BECAUSE I WAS ANSWERING SOME OF HIS CLONES IN THE ORDER THEY HAD POSTED "AGAINST" US/ME.

JAY

So . . . you asked and I’ll answer. I’ve been on staff at Cedars Sinai Medical Center for nearly thirty years in good standing. I attend in the nursery for a month at a time with med students, and residents and occasionally spend another month attending in the residents’ continuity clinic. I review cases, compare and contrast what I do in my private office with what they’re comfortable doing in a clinic setting or a large nursery setting.

I occasionally teach at noontime conference at Cedars and have many, many meetings with house staff and NICU attendings to talk and compare notes. At the present time, I’m caring for a child with a large staph abscess status post I&D on Clinda and Cephotax pending MRSA report tomorrow. This month, I’m mentoring a summer program for aspiring medical students who spend a day each week in my office seeing patients.

The caricature you paint of me is inaccurate but enjoy it if you must.

I just returned from UCLA where I attended the long hard birth as the family’s private pediatrician. I do this fairly often when a family would prefer to have a doctor they’ve met give immediate care rather than have house staff at the delivery. The residents also like this because it lightens their load a little for that hour or two. I still can intubate when I need to and I do all my own lumbar punctures. In a pinch, I can still start a great subclavian line because I was trained for a year as TPN Fellow in the early days of TPN.

My third hospital today is St. John’s Medical Center where I’m caring for two growing premie twins and a premie singlet doing well. Brief rounds only are needed because neonatal staff does a great job and I act as liaison.

My fourth hospital today is Santa Monica/UCLA where I also have premie twins doing great, just growing and requiring very little of my time and energy.

I began my day with phone work after a little hike with my dogs. I then drove a short distance to my office in my (three [edit] year old) car because I like to have it nearby in case I have to be somewhere fast. My new young associate is out on maternity leave so my workload is quite high. I juggle, as you all do, 15 kids in the office, countless phone calls, kids’ parents needing referrals, x-ray reports, lab reports, being short-staffed by one because of illness and then a phone call from Larry King’s show to appear in a few hours as they discuss Savage’s comments about autism and “idiots.” I agree to appear and move a patient to Tuesday to eliminate any possibility of an hour off that day.

You know, Dave, I am the closest thing on this board to “anti-vaccine” so if the epithet suits you gentlemen please feel to use it. It’s a helluva lot easier than saying “pediatrician who over the past thirty years has realized that vaccines and the schedule could be safer so he minimizes shots for all patients and actually gives no shots at all to many kids even though he believes so much in public health that he’s traveling to Africa in late September to bring Five Million tetanus shots to the Ivory Coast because between 100,000 and 200,000 people die from neonatal tetanus in Africa each year.”

Calling me “anti-vaccine” is a lot simpler and might even have enough accuracy to stick: I am very much opposed to the way vaccines are formulated with aluminum as the chief adjuvant, thimerosal as a preservative in many if not most influenza vaccines and I truly am “anti” the increasing number of combinations of vaccines. (Edit that well and it becomes: “ . . .I am very much . . . anti . . .vaccines . . . “ Good enough for certain journalists.)

“Pediatrician to the Stars” Aaah, my favorite appellation. I told you before and I’ll tell you now, I think that if I worked in Detroit I’d care for the most discerning and educated autoworkers and in Los Angeles, many medical consumers are discerning and they seek me out because I work really hard and make it my business to know the medical news and treatment best for their families. More than that, I listen when they know just as much—or more—than I do and we reach conclusions about their families’ health care as partners. And, yes, there certainly seem to be more than a few actors and directors in my neighborhood. Sometimes I get falsely proud because people who could afford to take their children anywhere for medical care, travel any distance and spend any amount of money choose to trust me.

And yes, I think the slogan “”too many, to soon” is a nice bumper sticker summary of the goal of many vaccine (not anti-vaccine) activists. Better quality medicine for our children, tested well and administered in a more logical fashion.

Orac, Dave . . ., stop calling me names. It no longer hurts my feelings but it diminishes you in public and detracts from the possibility of a discussion. If I scattered the phrase “illogical dickhead” through everything I wrote about you, it doesn’t exactly elevate the discussion. By the way, why haven’t you ever publicly identified yourself. Step out here and let us talk to a real person rather than a clever nom de . . . guerre.

Long ago, we acknowledged that the immune system matures slowly. I won’t discuss the minutia of encapsulated and non-encapsulated bacteria being dealt with differently in infants but we all here know that a newborn’s immune system is very different from a one-year-old’s and a two-year-old’s different still. If you really want me to elaborate on this, I will. But I know you already can crack open the same books I can to verify that what I just said is, while undetailed, correct.

I’m parroting nothing, you dope! (That actually felt good! Dave, you’re entitled to call me utterly moronic one extra time.) There are other ingredients in vaccines besides the antigens themselves and they are toxic substances. The FDA, the CDC, the AAP and virtually every other responsible medical body has declared the amount of mercury which was found in shots up until 2001 excessive. The exact same type of calculations have concluded that there’s far more aluminum than the government allows. These are facts not parroted speculation and you know it. If you deny these two simple points about quantity—not necessarily causation, just excessive quantity—you are lying and anyone reading this blog who can do simple math will know that you’re lying.

Dave, studies have been done and then the data were manipulated. You know the Verstraeten story better than I do and you also know that Bernadine Healy’s comments can’t be ignored.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2007/06/15/couricandco/entry2934107.shtml

Orac, stop using pejorative terms like “parroting” and making it sound like anyone who disagrees with you must be an idiot. Sometimes, people just disagree with one another. That doesn’t make you an idiot and it certainly doesn’t make me one either.

The measles vaccine causes problems. Sometimes, counter to the cliché, the plural of anecdote is data. I’ve seen post-MMR problems too many times and heard about hundreds more and I believe the people telling the story. I do not claim proof. I merely claim that there’s enough evidence to warrant a real investigation into the possibility that the MMR causes autism and other problems in some children.

We both agree that Wakefield’s original study was too small, not well enough done and should never have led to the conclusions which were published. Move on. And please stop attacking the man because he accepted money for testifying. The “other” side does that every single day. I don’t know all the details and neither do you, so stop pretending to know so much about his arrangement.

“That Dr. Gordon apparently believes that shoddy pseudoscience does not speak well of him.”

I don’t support Wakefield’s conclusions. I’ve told you this before but you persist in your dishonest attempt to tie me to the small MMR study. Lots of pilot studies have been done and many lead to larger better studies. This one has not led to the research which we’d all like to see.

There are variations on the cliché “Don’t challenge men who buy ink by the barrel.” And they apply here. No matter what I say, you own the website and can have the last words. You have gathered a group of true believers who are not really ready to think. Gentlemen, ladies, please realize that sometimes people just disagree.

Hey, Dave, the CDC and the AAP recommend that every single child in the age group you’ve mention get the flu shots. As of last year, the majority of those vaccines contained 25 micrograms of mercury. And, yes, a child getting a tetanus shot at age seven, nine or ten years would get the same dose and it also is formulated with 25 micrograms of mercury. You knew this but you lied to your readers anyway. Shame on you.

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm

Less autism? I sure hope so. But we still have enough other toxic exposure to create problems. I don’t know what it is! All I know is that autism is triggered by a variety of environmental chemicals some of which are found in children’s medicine and vaccines.

And, yes, there are just “teeny tiny” bits of formalin and other things. But they are injected directly into the blood. I loved the comment about IM shots. Where do you think vaccines and other meds in IM shots go? Directly to the toe nail? They get into the blood stream. We were all trained in medical school that if you couldn’t get an IV in during a seizure, get the IM shot in because it might cost another 15-20 minutes but it would get into the bloodstream and stop the seizure.

I do not drive a Mercedes. I have a three[edit]-year-old Lexus Hybrid which I bought because I liked it. I knew I wasn’t saving the world or even saving much fuel, but I like the car. I did decide not to replace it as an environmentally sound move. Big deal.

Taken out of context, my ice cream comment looks very silly. Taken in context . . . it still looks dumb. Oh, well.

My point—poorly stated—was that there were lots of public health measures which merit more funding and media attention. I was prescient because the front page of every newspaper the past week is talking about nothing but obesity. You win one. I win one.

Skeptico, nice to see you. Yes, the portal of entry for measles is the nose or throat and the immune response is mediated differently from the response to an IM or SQ injection. I think this causes some of the problems that susceptible families have reported. These probably include autism.

OK, folks, here’s the truth, we have an epidemic of something in America and it’s not measles. It’s obesity in children and adults. It’s Type 2 diabetes in ten-year-old kids. The cause: Cheese and Ice Cream. No further analogy will be drawn to vaccines because that didn’t work so well the first time, did it? But, ignoring the medical problems with the American child’s diet or denigrating my attitude about the dangers of obesity doesn’t make you right no matter how nasty or loud you are.

Sessions, I’m not a marketer. My practice has been full since the late 1980s. Call and try to make an appointment. I do what I do and people benefit. I have been at this for almost thirty years. Yes, as people have pointed out, I stepped in dog poop a couple times and paid for it. For thirty bucks you can check my malpractice record and my Medical Board Record. Don’t bother. Zero. So far :-) I readily admit that I spend parts of some days out on the fringe of medicine but I really do serve as an effective bridge between those who might never get into the system at all.

Sessions: “Rewards?” Fame and fortune. That’s why all of us pediatricians pick this specialty. It’s a the short cut to wild fame and great wealth. Plastic surgery? Ophthalmology?? Radiation Oncology?? Naah. You want real money and fame, go into pediatrics. My books? Countless hundreds of them in print! My web page. Ads for a couple baby creams with a firm agreement that I get no compensation. Kinda’ funny.

The State Medical Board? I was called up. I told them I wish I had done things differently in the Maggiore case. No action was taken. Again, for $29.95 you can get all the records from my entire career.

I’m getting tired but I just found the comment about my “money grubbing” DVD sales. I lost money. Ask the IRS. This was made to get information out and someday I might see some money. My practice is successful but my profit is far less than those practices which sell lots of vaccines. I have no new baby gift baskets . . . good idea, though! And, if any children had been injured, let alone fatally injured, by the way I practice, you would have heard about it. Nomad, unintelligent, uniformed comment. Your bravado setting is up too high because you’re surrounded by all these doctors saying the same thing over and over again. Dial it down before your next keystrokes.

Brian, aluminum should be out. You’re right: there are better and safer adjuvants.

Dr. T—yes, I make an absolute fortune off the countless cases of measles, mumps, pertussis and tetanus I see. Incredibly good insight, sir. You have finally stumbled on my motive! I must move on and find another name. I think I’ll choose . . . ORAC.

Nomad—Call me an HIV denialist to my face. HIV causes AIDS. I think you protest a bit too much. Swear, Nomad, swear, that you believe the virus causes the disease before us all. Thanks, doofus. Lumping me with that group doesn’t serve the discussion.

Nico—not me

Dave/ORAC—Formaldehyde does not cause autism. You are wrong, there.

OK, that’s enough. This should give you clones a week’s worth of fun.

As I wrote this, I realized two things, firstly, I’m more of an “expert observer of vaccination” than a “vaccine expert.” OK? And, I am damn sure that Dave/Orac does not have a real job: It takes hours to write and edit this stuff and mine’s nowhere near as good as Orac’s!!

Night all.

Jay

This was so funny, he deserves it, that all the bloggers at seed magazine are mad, they call anyone that disagrees with them "Deniers" "Cranks","Whackjobs"they're like pathetic trailer park hillbillies.

"Orac gets it right about 100% of the time."

Oh, you mean like how he said that Mercury Amalgams aren't dangerous? Yeah, he got that right (sarcasm).

Dorkski is nothing but a self absorbed, Mensa wannabe who thinks that every bit of filth that spouts from his deranged imagination is gold and truth. And people like you, Rod or whatever your name is, believe everything he says. Now, I'm pretty sure we can all see who the idiots are, can't we?

Rod -
You and Orac are the clueless ones. We are the ones with our eyes open.
Twyla

Orac gets it right about 100% of the time. You idiots should open your eyes and listen to what he's saying. The world of autism is rife with quackery and misconception.

Get a clue people. Get a clue.

JB, I owe you a huge apology. I first thought that your post was slightly inappropriate, but I will have to change that judgement and say that you are spot on, especially after reading the latest crapfest that has spewed from that "man's" idiotic imagination concerning the Green Our Vaccines rally. So, from the bottom of my heart, I am sorry, JB, and I agree with everyone else here; you are a hero to all of us, and especially to our children.

On a side note, I think I am going to create a Green Vaccine friendly website that mocks and ridicules the medical community, in similar style to Dorkski. Maybe name it "Disrespectful Hypocrisy" or something similar. I'm still bouncing the idea around, but I think it's time we started fighting back on a similar vein.

Orac is the cruelest, most arrogant, narrow minded idiot who ever signed onto the the internet! Months ago, I stumbled into his trap unknowing what type of morons commented. I thought, surely, when I explain the contraindications of vaccinating with live viruses, Primary Immunodeficiency, live virus replication, and my daughter's case of encephalitis, pituitary damage, growth delay, etc, they may understand.

Ha! Him and his cronies all ridiculed me for asserting a Varicella reaction could occur 21 days post vax. Had to point out which edition of the JAMA to look the Varicella Study in (which was sent to me by a MPH in the CDC's vaccine safety group). One would think perhaps, they may say "oh", or even "sorry, you are right"

Then, the unthinkable, Orac "showcased" me in a new piece about anti-vaccine nuts. Nice.

I guess, my daughter's permanent medical exemption makes me an "anti vaccine nut". Guess Orac forgot to read the part where I explained that Jade has no- little antibodies, and must rely on herd immunity.

What a dipshit Orac is, and I bet he has a small penis.

They ALL talk out of their ass over at ridiculous insolence, or whater the hell he calls his garbage. They know NOTHING about which they speak. The man plays with boobs and cancer all day, how the hell can he know anything about immunology or autism?

Orac did one good thing for me though, he taught me to stop arguing with idiots such as him, all it does is raise my blood pressure. That is when I started reading and posting here, where I know people understand. People who don't live to make me want to reach through my computer and slap the insolent smirk off their face.

JB -
I've been debating whether to just let this go, but in response to your comment I can't resist writing to say that I definitely am not judging you. Today I called David Kirby a hero, and I just want to say that you too are one of our community's greatest heroes. As I said in my inital comment, I found some of this article to be brilliant. Some of it also made me laugh out loud. But some comments - such as no wonder Orac hasn't procreated as he is such a nerd - just sound mean. I haven't read enough of Orac's drivel to fully appreciate what you are satirizing, but then probably neither have quite a few other AoA readers, particularly those who are new to these issues. My personal style is to generally stick to debating the issues, and to ignore rather than engage in the vitriole etc. But this does not mean that I hold you in any less high esteem, and I do understand that you are out there advocating for our community and constantly getting verbally beaten up as a result -- which I do appreciate!!

Twyla

Good article JB-FUNNY! Screw ORAC. Some of his writings read like the rants of a lunatic, doctor or not. Joseph Mengele was a doctor also. The guy gives me the creeps.

4. He is a crazy daredevil

This one really bowled me over:

“So insane was I that one year I took 17 credits in the fall semester, all but 3 of which were hard-core science classes, including graduate level biochemistry, and then did the same thing again the next semester.”

No! NO!! You are a MADMAN!!


HILARIOUS! The loudest I laughed all day. Thanks!

JB,

You, my friend are *literally* saving kids. That makes you a target. But it also makes you a hero.

You don't ever need to explain yourself to me. EVER.

Best,

Kelli

"And you don't mess around with Orac” = "You Don't mess with the Zohan"

David Dorkski, hair stylist by Day.....Undercover Specialist Blogger by night AKA ORAC!!!!!

I agree, he needs to get out more.

I would also make the comment that it is relatively easy to say that "stooping to the level" of those who attack us is undignified. It's particularly easy if you have never been fodder for the other side's attack machine, as I constantly am.

Mr. Gorski is an arrogant bully. From now on, anyone who googles his name will find my post. This does not serve his interests, and that's sort of the point. If you want to be a bully attack dog, you should be outed, and prepared to drink your own medicine.

Also, people seem to have obsessed a bit on the explicit personal attacks in my piece, which are meant to mirror his writing style to make a point, without reflecting on the second half of the piece that provides a very substantive challenge to many of his talking points.

Said differently, it's perhaps worth reserving judgement unless you have walked a mile in my shoes.

JB

I actually feel sorry for this guy after reading this JB- it would be nice if he was able to get some sort of personal life going. Maybe taking a break from blogging, and get out and start dating.

Has anyone ever tried to fix up Dr. Dorkski with Autism Diva- I think they would make a marvelous couple. :)

I agree with Doodle and Blue Heron, and with Craig W's initial comment. Better to stay above the vitriole and personal attacks than to join in. To me some of this article is brilliant, but some of it descends to a very low level of discourse.

Well done, always wondered who he was but couln't be bothered to find out. When you consider the consequences of his actions then you have been very restrained, I know what I'd like to do. Funded by the DOD: David H. Gorski.....received $466,500 from the Department of Defense Breast Cancer Research Program...." http://www2.umdnj.edu/rnewsweb/print/2003/awdAugustSeptember2003.htm Also active on the HealthFraud list----Barrett is the covert voice of the AMA, and has spent his life protecting Fluoride, and Big Pharma, with wall to wall lies, helping to funnel millions of victims into the Cancer Industry, AIDS Industry and the autism epidemic.

if you want Dr Gorski's connection to being so adamant autism/vaccines look no farther than the school he is hired by "Robert Wood Johnson Medical School"

Robert Wood Johnson:
Think JOHNSON & JOHNSON
Think RHOGAM litigation
Think same foundation that help set up monitoring to enforce the mandate for hepB vaccinations

“I, personally, would never use a male pseudonym.”

Gayle,

I’m totally with you on that one.

Crud. It’s hard enough for me just to try and figure out what the h-e-double toothpicks the opposite sex is doing half the time (no comments from the peanut gallery please) so I couldn’t even *imagine* trying to pass myself off as one!! ;-)

Poor Dr's Hewiston and Healy. They must not have been in the 180 that ORAC was and had to settle for Harvard instead.

Hey wasn't Bill Frist a surgeon too?

Is no one else weirded out by the fact that a male doctor uses a female sounding pseudonym? I, personally, would never use a male pseudonym. It is creepy to me that someone would blog in a way that intentionally deceives others about gender. Very odd! Yuck!

Garbo,

This is part 2 of an excellent article by Jay Cohen of medicationsense.com

http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/may_aug_06/conflict_of_interest_060306.html

It deals directly with medical schools and the influence of the pharm empire.

Be sure to read part one too, at:

http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/jan_apr_06/conflict_of_interest_020306.html

It's pretty disgusting, but not surprising at all.

I usually find the whole neurodiverse group rather pathetic and try not to pay attention to them. But after reading this article, and seeing JB's response, I agree 100% with his observation that sometimes it's worth punching the bullies in the face. It might not accomplish much, but in some cases they deserve it.

Thanks, JB.

From Petra -

"Narcisstic Personality Disorder or manic Bipolar would be a MUCH better fit.

Most likely however Orac simply IS an arrogant, conceited, know it all "donkey's behind"."

I was quite sure it WAS Aspergers. Hmm, are you absolutely sure this isn't just a case of over-diagnosis. From what I hear, it happens a *LOT*.

Actually, the most disturbing thing about Dr. G. is that he's a faculty member at a med school. One of the things that's bothered me the most about our whole autism adventure is that our pediatrician seemed so very blithely unaware of discussion, debate, or scientific research that undermines that whole 'vaccines are great' mantra that they must learn unquestioningly in med school at UCLA. Are there any med schools out there who are teaching about this stuff? And if not, why not? Has anyone done a study of how much funding med schools get from Pharma?

J.B.,

I do not think you are stooping to any level by posting the facts, your opinion and your feelings re Dr Gorski, aka ORAC. He is a negative factor in helping parents learn about biomed vs DSM pill pushing and is instrumental in bashing reasearch pertinent to causation and thus treatments. He is not a nice man, nor a good person. His obsession with autism should not be related to his life on his resume so one must wonder what is the real deal? I say bombs away (rhetorically :) on anyone, any organization, any facility that hurts my daughter and all of your children as well. Keep it coming! A of A is here to speak the truth and you, my friend, have done that today.

I find the suggestions that Orac's nastiness, extremely personal and unfounded attacks, and his "I'm a great scientist and the rest of you are bunch of dumb schmucks that only just crawled out from other a rock' grandiosity could be explained from the perspective of him having Asperger's Syndrome very offensive. Narcisstic Personality Disorder or manic Bipolar would be a MUCH better fit.

Most likely however Orac simply IS an arrogant, conceited, know it all "donkey's behind".

alyric, you said, "It appears that Dr Gorski is to be congratulated. Surely the highest compliment to one's activities is a 100% ad hominem invective because there is nothing else one could say. Way to go Orac!"

You mean like this quote from Orac?
"I'm not going to discuss Olmsted's commentary on these abstracts any more because Olmsted has proven time and time again that he doesn't know what science is, how it works, or what he is talking about. Besides, in response to tweaking over at the Autism Blog, the merry band of antivaccinationists over at AoA kindly posted all three of the actual abstracts that were presented at the International Meeting for Autism Research (IMFAR). Why bother with Olmsted's uninformed rants and mischaracterizations when I can cut through his obfuscation and go straight to the source?"

Does anyone else love bashing hypocrites as much as I do?

It was written by John Bailar in the NEJM in 1980

"Cause and Effect in Epidemeology: What do we know about hypertriglyceridemia?" June 19; 302(25):1417-18

J.B.,

Thank you for this insightful article.

You quote a commentary on epidemiology from The New England Journal of Medicine. What it says is undoubtedly true. But when I attempted to find the source material to read more, I could not find it in the NEJM or anywhere else.

Would you please tell me, either personally via E-mail or include it on the web page, a reference or link to the complete article?

JB did not out Orac. Orac was outed years ago. Even the photo is the same.

http://www.patsullivan.com/blog/2005/09/orac_unmasked_a.html

It's all part of controlling both sides of the argument. If one successfully controls one side already he can always gain control of the other side by influence.

Bob Wright has been involved in the exoneration of Thimersoal for a lot longer than Autism Speaks.

Think about it.

I'm all for outing Dr. Gorski. In fact, since that friendly "Probe" mentioned that Dr. Gorski's specialty is breast cancer, I think it might be fun to find out where exactly his research funding comes from. And why it is he feels compelled to blog about autism, which clearly is not his specialty. I suspect maybe the two are related. As for the somewhat personal tone of the bashing in this piece, he seems kind of Aspie to me, in which case maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt on his poor social skills, rather than bashing him for them. He probably needs a little more ABA.

ORAC hid behind his nom-de-blog, and "bully" is the perfect word to describe him.

Particularly bothersome is his propensity to insult parents who are trying to help their children, without ever offering anything more than name-calling and condescension. His blog attracts a special brand of nasty.

For those defending our dear ORAC, are you afraid that he can dish it out but he can't take it? It's about time he got a tiny taste of his own medicine. Thanks, JB, for dispensing the bitter pill by calling him out.

JB,

Please don't take what I said as negative criticism; I agree with you for the most part. I just thought that posting this might provoke him.

On the other hand, he may run like the coward that he is, who knows?

I once engaged in a short back and forth discussion with orac regarding the Burbacher findings and their implications. He rather quickly removed the links to the entire discussion from his front page, then eventually from his entire site (apparently because I brought up a perspective and some points he couldn't refute). That told me all I needed to know about his integrity. I have never since bothered to read anything he has to say. And when I find other sites that refer or link to his site, I have a useful framework within which to evaluate whatever information those sites are putting forth. There are many folks in the world who are paid to deceive, and many others who are so brainwashed and incapable of critical thought that they are unable to consider any information which conflicts with their previously acquired knowledge. Your guess is as good as mine as to which of these categories Mr. Gorski is in. Either way, the best policy is probably to just ignore him. To better understand Mr. Gorski and his ilk, and a lot of controversies beyond this one, I suggest reading the new book: "Doubt Is Their Product," by David Michaels, Oxford University Press, 2008. Quite enlightening. I also agree with other posters who suggest that this opinion piece is not suited to the journalistic standards that Age of Autism should be aiming for, and sometimes, has achieved.

It appears that Dr Gorski is to be congratulated. Surely the highest compliment to one's activities is a 100% ad hominem invective because there is nothing else one could say. Way to go Orac!

"Why do people speak in the third person? Mr. Gorski not only does it, but he speaks in third person pseudonym:"

Does this man have Aspergers' syndrome? Some kids on the spectrum speak in third person. Usually around the time they are diagnosed. It might be pertinent to point out that this third person reference usually goes away with *treatment*. Maybe some *treatment* might be of help here.

Speaking of spontaneous recovery:

When pharma got wind of the fact that a congressional committee was looking into our issue they sent three of their finest (lobbyists) to try and convince the lead investigator that children were spontaneously recovering.

Their response: Where's the science to support your claim?

It's good to know there are still a few individuals in positions of power who aren't afraid to question the validity of broad based, pie in the sky assertions made by the likes of Orac and his cronies.

I fully support JB's right to express himself and AOA's right to post it.

Last I looked we lived in America. Gorski can surely take what he dishes out - as for the rest of those who are reluctant to go to the place that JB went - attack mode - at least he is not sitting at home bitching about it. Sharing his passion with us may be his way of letting loose his pent up anger. Too many parents of children with autism keep it inside - all the injustices we all feel no matter what side you are on. It ends up being illness both mental and physical in the long run.

Long live JB Handley!

JB, if you have a mentally impaired child, blame simple Mendelian genetics, not autism. Anyone who would invest as much time poring over a blog just to churn out something as ridiculous as this swing-and-a-miss slap at David Gorski (and I'm not a fan of his) is obviously not a prime candidate for having normal spawn.

JB, this was a great article. #8 was great. Spontaneous recovery indeed. Are you kidding me? Nobody could spontaneously recover from the crap that is put into our kids and the damage it does to them!

Craig:

I think it's important to realize the post is written by me, not Age of autism collectively. And, it's not above me to fight now and again.

Every once in a while, it's worth punching a bully in the face.

Some may disagree, and they should fight or not in their own way. The post is how I deal with conflict, not the community per se.

JB

Actually, given my experience among people with "credentials," anyone who begins a sentence lauding theirs and has more honorific acronyms than actual words in the clause has to go out of their way to prove to me they're not a total egotistical blowhard. I grew up in and around academia and a string of letters and periods following someone's name doesn't impress me. It just shows a dedication to long hours of advanced education, memorization, ass-kissing, turning off critical thinking as you learn to mindlessly accept everything your professor or textbook says, and going into tens if not a hundred thousand dollars of debt. Also, especially in the medical school spectrum, ambition and a strong, healthy God-complex are more desirable traits than intellect and a system of basic ethics.

60s comedian Mort Saul, commenting after meeting General Westmoreland, the head troop commander during most of the Vietnam era, said something along the lines of "He had row after row of glittering metals. It was dazzling, amazing even. Very impressive... if you're 12."

Speaking of jokes, and bad ones, theprobe (you dropped the word coward but were obviously too cowardly to post with your real name), please keep commenting. You make me laugh.

And Kim, thanks for those sexy images earlier! ;)

"You forgot to grow up. Your article is supremely childish and demonstrative of the paucity of your arguments."
TheProbe? You might want to give that advice to the jerk who tells you what to think...you know, he signs into multiple accounts and is too afraid of us to give us his real name. Oh well, go back and let him tell you what to say next. We'll wait.

Probe, you more of a girl on the Harley guy? ;) Orac and others have built a blogging career beating the crap out of anyone and everyone who is trying to help kids with autism. Surely this piece by JB can't sting a person of Orac's credentials all that much. You know the rule, as long as they spell your name right, the publicity is a good thing.

I've been called a "sex addict" and many other names by your ilk. Including "dingbat" which wounded me deeply. BTW, I am not a sex addict. With three kids with autism, I practically have to look up sex in the dictionary.

See you soon, I'm sure.

Kim

Please don't take this as disrespect or anything, because you guys know I have the utmost respect for all that you do here. Isn't this, though, bringing yourselves down to his level? I know, it is difficult to sit there, day in and day out, reading his incompetent and arrogant ramblings, and then have to roll your eyes at all of the people who stupidly read his drivel and say, "Orac say it. Must be true!" (in my best zombie drone). But responding to him in kind, I've learned, is lowering yourself to his level, and you guys are way too nice to do that. Besides, it's what he wants. He just wants an excuse to bash us even more.

Besides, the more he drips stupidity from his mouth, the more people will begin to realise what a quack he is. And of course, we all know how dishonest he and his vaccine drones are; I mean, look at what they do, signing on with multiple names on various blogsites so that they have little "buddies" to back up their hatred and ignorance.

I, on the other hand, have no qualms with insulting him and telling him what a jerk he is to his face. Then again, I feel that you guys are much better people than I am :D

Wow, I think this post is almost completely inappropriate. I'd strongly urge you guys to take this one down. It will certainly do us more harm than good, I'm afraid . . . .

Considering all the ugly things that are said about us on neurodiversity (and similar) sites, this post is particularly unfortunate.

Hey, J.B. you forgot something on the way to your computer. You forgot to grow up. Your article is supremely childish and demonstrative of the paucity of your arguments.

As for Stagmom, YOU were speaking of porn. No one else. That shows where your mind is.

Age of Autism is a joke. A very bad joke. Now, do not be a coward and post this comment.

Note to doodle: Dr. Gorski is a breast cancer researcher and surgeon. He has both an MD and PhD.

Mr. Handley, what are YOUR credentials?

"You know, girls lying naked on the old Eniac computer and scantily dressed as characters from Dungeons and Dragons."

If he indeed has such a collection, I hope he'll provide a link to the site where he got it!

I don't kow, but this seems a little personal and below the belt. Is Orac in the category of Offit or he is pretty much irrelevant to the big picture? If he is just a commentor, then going after his looks and antisocial aspect seems a little much and probably will just stroke his ego.

It may be cathartic to tear into him, but what would a newcomer to the site think? It's your blog, but it has become a good source for news bits and maybe a personal fight like this could turn some folks off. Just an observation.

JB - what I find pathetic is that many of the whackospherians rely solely on derivative material. They troll the autism lists, they sniff around the garbage can at blogs and they lurk on the autism lists just waiting to scavenge some info, digest it and regurgitate it out to their readers.

These folks are like the people who used to call Howard Stern all the time telling him how offensive he was - and the proceed to give so many examples of his trangressions that you knew they were his most loyal fans. Or like the preacher caught with a barn full of porn - "I was check checking to make sure it's really porn!" Speaking of porn, I'll bet old Orac has himself a healthy collection of it. You know, girls lying naked on the old Eniac computer and scantily dressed as characters from Dungeons and Dragons. LOL!

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